{"id":377,"date":"2007-02-28T06:25:00","date_gmt":"2007-02-28T14:25:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/?p=377"},"modified":"2007-02-28T06:25:00","modified_gmt":"2007-02-28T14:25:00","slug":"boulez-mahler-and-me","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/boulez-mahler-and-me\/","title":{"rendered":"Boulez: Mahler and me"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/a>Pierre Boulez. Photo <\/span> \u00a9 <\/span>Monika Rittershaus,<\/span>
courtesy Staatsoper Unter den Linden<\/a><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/h1>\n
Got to rush off to the University for committees & teaching. The day job. But just read a recent interview with Pierre Boulez, wonderfully active at eighty, & thought that would make a good post for the day. Thanks to signandsight, who are really doing an excellent job \u2014 though I just came across some critism, which I find ridiculously benighted, of their activities, according to which it is contradictory that these champions of European culture should strut their stuff in the imperial(istic) language of the day: English.<\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
\n
J\u00f6rg K\u00f6nigsdorf interviews composer and conductor Pierre Boulez on his selective affinities for the works of Gustav Mahler.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Pierre Boulez<\/a>, born in France in 1925, is one of the major composers and conductors of our day. Together with Daniel Barenboim, he is currently touring Europe performing a Mahler cycle<\/a> with Berlin\u2019s Staatskapelle.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n

\n

Pierre Boulez. Photo <\/span> \u00a9 <\/span>Monika Rittershaus, courtesy Staatsoper Unter den Linden<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

S\u00fcddeutsche Zeitung<\/b>: Like Herbert von Karajan<\/a> and Daniel Barenboim<\/a>, you became known as a Mahler specialist only later in your career. Do you have to be 80 years old to understand Mahler?<\/i><\/p>\n

Pierre Boulez<\/b>: I conducted a lot of Mahler 40 years ago as head of the BBC Orchestra in London \u2013 but not in Germany. I discovered Mahler\u2019s music in 1958, through his Lieder. Mahler was a great fan of the voice, and he orchestrated the songs with a lighter touch and greater refinement than the symphonies.

Does Mahler bring the 19th century to a close, or usher in the 20th?<\/i><\/p>\n

It is precisely his position between two different epochs that makes him so fascinating. For me, Mahler\u2019s music is closely associated with that of Alban Berg<\/a>, the same sensibility is present in both. It\u2019s just that Berg used a new vocabulary, while you can still listen to Mahler through 19th-century ears without being overly disturbed. I believe Mahler attempted to achieve a unity that had ceased to be attainable<\/b>. Take his third symphony<\/a>: the bombast of the first movement is followed by theatrical episodes, the Nietzsche movement is then followed by the \u201cBim Bam\u201d of the boy\u2019s choir and then by the finale, which invokes the spirit of Beethoven by means of virtually literal citations. It\u2019s completely illogical as a totality \u2013 but comprehensible in light of Mahler\u2019s own biography.<\/p>\n

Do you perceive a sustained impact by Mahler on contemporary composition?<\/i><\/p>\n

Mahler\u2019s music had no immediate successors\u2026<\/p>\n

\u2026apart from Shostakovich<\/a>.<\/i><\/p>\n

But now we\u2019re really in a completely different price class<\/b>. Shostakovich is far less complex than Mahler! But there is an eminently practical reason why Mahler had no immediate followers: the Second Viennese School<\/a> considered shorter pieces to be modern, and no one was especially interested in Mahler\u2019s protracted narrative breath. That came only later \u2013 for me as well. While you would never say that my music resembles Mahler\u2019s stylistically, I have nonetheless been influenced by its fundamental principles: the conception of time and the attempt to wrest continually new standpoints from the same material.<\/p>\n

With contemporary orchestral music, you often get the impression that to a great extent, Mahler exhausted the expressive resources of the symphonic apparatus. <\/i><\/p>\n

When composers deploy the orchestra in three groups as Mahler did, it inevitably recalls classical orchestration. I\u2019ve drawn the logical consequences from this situation, progressively subdividing the orchestra in my pieces. The musicians must be deployed individually \u2013 that is the path toward the orchestra of the 21st century.

It seems astonishing that you have conducted so much Mahler, but never Richard Strauss<\/a>.<\/i><\/p>\n

I admire Strauss\u2019 virtuosity. But I have the feeling that at times content mattered less to him.<\/p>\n

You\u2019re highly selective in deciding which pieces to perform.<\/i><\/p>\n

That has to do with the fact that I see myself primarily as a composer<\/b>, not an interpreter<\/b>. I only conduct music that interests me as a composer. I enjoy listening to Tchaikovsky<\/a> and Sibelius<\/a> on the radio or at concerts, but I feel no genuine affinity for their music.<\/p>\n

*

The interview originally appeared in German in the S\u00fcddeutsche Zeitung <\/b>on January 16, 2007.<\/p>\n

J\u00f6rg K\u00f6nigsdorf writes on music for the S\u00fcddeutsche Zeitung<\/b>.<\/p>\n

Translation: Ian Pepper<\/i><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Pierre Boulez. Photo \u00a9 Monika Rittershaus,courtesy Staatsoper Unter den Linden Got to rush off to the University for committees & teaching. The day job. But just read a recent interview with Pierre Boulez, wonderfully...<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-377","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/377","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=377"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/377\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=377"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=377"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pierrejoris.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=377"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}